VUWSA: ANZAC wreath would support war
In a decision made fewer than three days out from the day itself, Victoria University of Wellington Students’ Association (VUWSA) decided to reject an invitation from the Wellington City Council to lay a wreath at this year’s ANZAC Day commemorations.
The decision was borne out of a desire not to “arbitrarily” observe events for which there was no formal VUWSA policy. VUWSA does not currently have a formal position on officially commemorating ANZAC Day, and this position was considered the “overarching” reason for the rejection.
VUWSA President Jasmine Freemantle said there was no “official mandate from students” to recognise ANZAC Day. She also said there would be a Special Representative Council meeting to seek this mandate from students later this year.
In 2007 exec member Heleyni Pratley laid a communist wreath on ANZAC Day, reading “To the dead and the dying in the struggle against imperialism, victory shall be theirs”. The same wording featured in the wreath laid by 1973 VUWSA President Peter Wilson in protest against the Vietnam War and again 30 years later by 2006 President Nick Kelly.
The lack of policy was not the only reason a number of Exec members were vehemently against the idea of laying a wreath. Exec members said that to lay a wreath would be to condone war.
Vice President of Education, Freya Eng, expressed concern for the association’s reputation.
“I don’t want to look like we support war at all,” she said.
VUWSA’s Vice President of Administration Alexander Neilson claimed a wreath would be unnecessary.
“There’s no point in placing a wreath if it has nothing to do with students,” Neilson said during the meeting.
Neilson went on to explain that Victoria had already “done its part” to commemorate the fallen with the construction of the Memorial Theatre. He went on to suggest the possibility of laying a “small” wreath in the theatre (which is currently under construction) as recognition of students who served in the military. Also possibly holding a few moments of silence before the next meeting, “and leav[ing] it at that.”
Vic has a long and storied history of involvement in military service. Male students were required to undergo territorial training during World War II, following the completion of exams. 290 students are known to have lost their lives during the conflict.
In 1942, the Victoria University of Wellington Students Association actively engaged in raising money for the Patriotic Fund, which financed all the work done by the YMCA and the Church Army during the World War II. The association also invested in government stock.
Salient’s print edition will have further coverage on Monday.
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Michael Oliver
Kia ora, biography box, kia ora.
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229 Comments
30 Apr, 2009 at 3:16 pm
Okay, I can’t believe this. All that was required was an apology for stuffing up for stuffing up is what the Exec did. Simple. But none comes. Debate on culture is pointless because the actions of the Exec have held Vic Students up to national ridicule. To say personal political views did not drive the choice made is generous for the facebook page of the Pres clearly states her political views and the Workers Party website advertises the Workers Party distain for all aspects of ANZAC Day.
30 Apr, 2009 at 3:29 pm
I know what you are getting at Matt. You are implying that my comments are not serious. Well without Phil and Ross’s critical thinking and specialist education how would we have known that ANZAC day serves as a pseudo-religious occasion and the response to the exec’s actions stifle debate and are therefore dangerous? It takes a special mind to draw those conclusions with which I doubt you are blessed. You obviously don’t have the education and rational, critical thinking type of mindset to understand the core of this discussion. You probably think ANZAC day is about remembering the participants in all conflicts, that the day is an important cultural event for many New Zealanders and a lot of people on this blog are offended that the exec has not respected that fact. So much for what you know. Just leave the thinking to Phil and Ross at least one of them has a BA and they really get it.
30 Apr, 2009 at 3:49 pm
Matt, I know what you are thinking. How dare you imply that my comments are not serious. Without Phil and Ross’s critical thinking and education how would we have known that ANZAC day serves as a pseudo-religious occasion and the responses in this blog stifle debate and are therefore dangerous? It takes a special mind to draw those conclusions which I bet you don’t have. You need a tertiary degree and a critical thinking type of mindset to understand the core of this discussion. Uneducated people like you probably think that the point of this blog is that ANZAC day is about remembering the participants in all conflicts, that ANZAC ceremonies are important cultural events for many New Zealanders and a lot of people are offended that the exec, who apparently represents their interests, have not respected that fact. So much for what you know. Just leave the thinking to Phil and Ross at least one of them has a BA and they really get it.
30 Apr, 2009 at 3:50 pm
War is war. War is hell. It is a natural part of life. It is man at his greatest, and at his worst. Tim you depress me Come out of the Cave
30 Apr, 2009 at 3:51 pm
Matt I am writing on behalf of Sharon (she is in a culural studies lecture and is unable to send through these thoughts), She writes: I know what you are thinking. How dare you imply that my comments are not serious. Without Phil and Ross’s critical thinking and education how would we have known that ANZAC day serves as a pseudo-religious occasion and the responses in this blog stifle debate and are therefore dangerous? It takes a special mind to draw those conclusions which I bet you don’t have. You need a tertiary degree and a critical thinking type of mindset to understand the core of this discussion. Uneducated people like you probably think that the point of this blog is that ANZAC day is about remembering the participants in all conflicts, that ANZAC ceremonies are important cultural events for many New Zealanders and a lot of people are offended that the exec, who apparently represents their interests, have not respected that fact. So much for what you know. Just leave the thinking to Phil and Ross at least one of them has a BA and they really get it.
30 Apr, 2009 at 4:42 pm
Typicall little commie , lefty shitheads who are so pathetic as to say war is bad bad bad.
War is for killing your enemies , the ones who want to kill you!
If it wasn’t for the ANZAC troops you commie scum would not even be here!
Traitors.FY!
30 Apr, 2009 at 4:54 pm
Tim- Japan has never been communist. Read your history.
Furthermore, Do you honsetly think that more than 130,000 (90,000 at Hiroshima, 40,000 in Nagasaki) US troops would have died in a ground invasion? If you do not, then does that mean that the lives of US servicemen are worth more than those of Innocent civilians? US bombing of Japan killed nearly 200,000 poeple, mostly civilians. Are these lives worth less than those of poeple with guns to defend themselves?
And if anyone is going to bring up “us being saved from Japanese invasion”, how different is that from (unchecked) British expansionism in the 19th Century? We are still subjects of the British crown – how different, objectivly speaking, is that from being Japanese subjects?
As a final note i wish to state unequivically that I am not a communist, for the purposes of clarification.
30 Apr, 2009 at 10:12 pm
just have some respect for the soldiers eh. anzac days isn’t a day to remember war, its a days to remember those that fought and sacrificed so much to defend freedom.
“anyone can talk about what should be done in a given moment but most wont do anything about it. you see it every day on your tv screens, all sorts of so called experts with great sounding title and articles that have been published. they are always ready to give advice but never ready to pick up a rifle, ruck up and close with the enemy”
im not writing this to change your views on war but i am writing this to say that you should have respect for those that fight for your freedom, have respect for the soldiers.
1 May, 2009 at 11:37 am
Join the VUWSA Boycott group on Facebook.
1 May, 2009 at 1:21 pm
OH my goodness , if you think laying a wreath to remember people who died for your freedom is to condon war , you are all bloody stupid and should stop wasting your time at uni! I have served in the Defence force and always take the time on Anzac Day to remember those who died for my freedom.
Wake up and smell the roses , idiots!
1 May, 2009 at 3:23 pm
The VUWSA have the democratic right not to lay a wreath……NZ is one of only 6 countries in the last 100 years to have been continously free and democratic.
Now why is that.. O we have had citizens fight/die for our democracy…….
“I don’t want to look like we support war at all,” vice-president of education Freya Eng said”
ANZAC day is the day we often think about the horrors of war but more importantly it is the day to remember those who made sacrifices and ensured that we remained a democracy by fighting off those who wanted to impose their will on us.
Fancy having a group of twits as the exec controlling the student body where they cant even pay respect to those who gave them the right to be “free”….. SHAME
1 May, 2009 at 3:36 pm
Ray says:
“ANZAC day is the day we often think about the horrors of war but more importantly it is the day to remember those who made sacrifices and ensured that we remained a democracy by fighting off those who wanted to impose their will on us.”
Repeat something often enough and it’s supposed to become truth. If people keep saying NZ soldiers went to WWI to defend democracy and fight for freedom, it should become fact. Unfortunately it won’t. Neither will insulting people who disagree with you.
Where is the evidence that the Turks, the Malaysians, the Koreans or the Vietnamese had designs on attacking us. And if the answer to the last three is “Ah but the commies were coming”, then I suggest dropping the pretense that ANZAC Day isn’t political.
Cheers,
John
1 May, 2009 at 5:19 pm
To the Students,
I have been avoiding this page because of advice about the vitriol aimed at me. Naturally it is quite hurtful to read. However, I have a lot of respect for students, and feel you deserve to hear what I have to say before Salient comes out next Monday with my right of reply.
First of all, my comment was part of wider discussion about VUWSA policy on war in general (which catagorically says that the students of VUW do not support war – feel free to change this at an SRC if you feel that the student body’s views have changed – that is what democracy is about). By no means did I say that I think ANZAC Day condones or supports war. Of course that is a ludicrous position. My relatives fought in the World Wars, I regularly attend Dawn Services, and have marched in the parade wearing my grandfather’s and great uncle’s medals.
I adore Salient and am very proud of it. It is one of the best student publications in the country (actually probably the best). However, this media scandal is the result of poor reporting. The national news outlets picked it up and went with the most sensational headline possible. Even the headline above is simply untrue. The Executive consists of many people from many different parties (I myself am not a member of any political party), but Jasmine, myself and the other two VPs are extremely stoic about making sure every decision we make is about student representation and democracy. It is the first question we ask in making decisions – “Does it benefit our members (students)?”
For context’s sake, VUWSA’s history (under previous Executives) with ANZAC Day. The Association has laid anti-wreaths and no wreath at all before.
It is for this reason that we reached the conclusion that it would be best (regardless of how we personally feel about ANZAC Day, as that does not factor – we are representatives of all students, not ourselves, obviously) that we ascertain students’ position on ANZAC Day, and whether they feel their representative body should support it or not, at a Student Representative Council (which is going to be held next week – check Salient for details). I stand by this decision, as I believe it upholds our overall goal of acting on behalf of students, not blindly doing what we personally think is right (that is very subjective), as previous Execs have done.
Seeing as there is so much inquiry into the matter – I am a 5th generation Norwegian immigrant on my father’s side – that is where my last name comes from – and 1st generation English on my mother’s side. I believe a German married into my family at some point but that is the extent of my German ancestry. The point is, however, is that is irrelevant, and no matter what I am reported to have said, that would never make anyone fair game for racist or sexist attacks (stupid b****, idiotic woman, etc). One person emailed me telling me to go back to my sh**hole country… I was born in Tauranga. That sort of thing is absolutely unacceptable.
As a final note, I am also disappointed at the slurs on Jasmine. Working with her closely on a day-to-day basis, I best of anyone can tell you that she is a hardworking, intelligent woman, and a very strong leader – working for students and representing them well is a passion of hers and she works ridiculously long hours. Check out her work reports on the VUWSA website for proof of this.
I hope that answers your questions (I did not have a chance to read all of the comments), and appreciate your feedback and outrage, but the moral of the story is: don’t believe everything you read. If you have further questions, feel free to visit myself, Jasmine or any other member of the Executive in our offices on the ground floor of the student union building. We are happy to be held accountable to you.
Respectfully,
Freya Eng
Vice President (Education)
1 May, 2009 at 6:16 pm
“The Executive consists of many people from many different parties (I myself am not a member of any political party), but Jasmine, myself and the other two VPs are extremely stoic about making sure every decision we make is about student representation and democracy.”
you use the word democracy but if it wasnt for good people fighting wars you wouldnt have that democracy in this country.
“For its Tommy this an’ Tommy that, an’ “chuck ‘im out, the brute!” – But it’s “savior of ‘is country” when the guns begin to shoot” – Rudyard Kipling
how can you comment on war if youve never experienced it yourself? you say that vuwsa doesnt support war, a view you probably obtained by sitting infront of a tv watching the news in the safety of your own home. unless you know what it is like to leave your home, your friends and family behind not knowing if you will ever see them again going to work under some of the worst conditions you will ever experience, unless you know what its actually like to fight for queen and country then you have no foundation for your comment.
most the work done by soldiers today is peace keeping, helping to rebuild a country. there are many people from outside this country that are greatful for what we do, yet you dont often see this in the news, you see what will sell news papers.
do bear in mind that this is not aimed at you as an individual but at the vuwsa as a whole and those that support their lack of respect. also bear in mind that i do not condone the threatening emails you have been recieveing.
im not here to change you oponions on wars being fought because im sure they are different but when it comes down to it anzac day is about the soldier, not the war.
“War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling that thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.” – John Stuart Mill
1 May, 2009 at 6:46 pm
Tim Milne: whilst you may have some university education, it is clearly not in the field of interpreting Blatant Irony. Re-read Sharon’s post’s with that observation in mind, and I think you might find an amusing and kindred spirit there.
1 May, 2009 at 7:58 pm
Freya, you said you didn’t want to be seen to be supporting war. You said it whilst discussing VUWSA’s ANZAC wreath policy. Don’t try and put the blame on ‘poor reporting’. It was your poor thinking-before-speaking that caused this.
1 May, 2009 at 8:50 pm
The refusal of Victoria University Wellington Students Association to lay a wreath at the ANZAC Day Commemerations disgusts me. The VUWSA gives the reasons that to do so “would be to condone war” , “it has no offical mandate from students” and those students who do not see ANZAC Day as a day of rememberence “need their views heard also”. I understand that the VUWSA is a compulsary organisation that takes money from all its members so should therefore represent them all. It would hardly need a university education to realise that a large number of students would like ANZAC Day to be recognized and the actions of the VUWSA are ignorant. Interesting to note that the the website photos of the executive show a photo of Chinese dictator Mao in the back ground. I wonder if the VUWSA executive think highly of a man who was in charge of a regime that caused so much hardship , misery and death to so many.The Executive should hang their heads in shame and if they had any sort of belief in freedom of speech , and integrity they would resign and stand for re election .But I bet they will cling to their positions like the leeches they are using other peoples money to further their own actions which are a disgrace to their organisation , members and them personally.
1 May, 2009 at 8:59 pm
Hi Dave -
Thanks for your comment. VUWSA’s policy on war was obtained through a student representative council meeting (of which any member can attend – we have them every week this year), and so does not reflect on the views of the current exec. As I have said, we did not make our decision based on our view of war, but on our collective commitment to a student voice. Because ANZAC Day is such a contentious issue, we decided that it was not a decision for us to make (for example, if we had had policy on it in the future, it would have prevented previous execs from laying “anti-imperialist” wreaths).
Shitkicker McGee – You have a right to your opinion, of course. I have told the truth, and stand by it. I realise I am in a public position and am responsible to students for everything I utter as EVP, but I refuse to allow criticism based on comments that were taken out of context and sensationalised. ANZAC Day honours service men and women past and present, appreciates their service and sacrifice and reflects on the horrors of war, but I do not, nor have I ever, believed that it supports war.
As far as I am concerned that is all I have to say on the matter. I will not be returning to this page again, as I feel I have done my duty to students in replying to their concern.
Regards,
Freya Eng
1 May, 2009 at 9:11 pm
Sensationalised too! Oh my, you’re so hard done by.
1 May, 2009 at 10:16 pm
but anzac day isnt a contentious issue. its a nationally recognized day of rememberence where people gather in the thousands at cenotaphs all around the country standing in complete silence as the bugle sounds. people of all age, from young children through to the vets of WWII, malaya and vietnam. even primary school student have enough smarts to realise why anzac day is so important.
given that there is no “official mandate from students” to recognise ANZAC Day means that officially no student objects the VUWSA on recognizing and supporting anzac day. if this is the case the best pratice would be to use common sense and show respect to those that gave some much.
i just hope that next year the VUWSA doesnt make the same mistake
1 May, 2009 at 11:16 pm
Is the government not representing the views of New Zealanders when it lays wreaths on Anzac day? Would Australians be disgusted the their High Commissioner placed a wreath at Wellington’s cenotaph just because a minority oppose war? New Zealanders are turning up to dawn services in record numbers. VUWSA should probably note that just because a minority is more vocal, doesn’t make it the majority; it seems to have done jus that, sadly.
I wore a Poppie on Anzac Day.
1 May, 2009 at 11:17 pm
Good on you Freya…though you won’t likely read this I will at least say I’m impressed you’ve taken the time to reply. I like someone who fronts up and faces the crazy mob. I look forward to reading Salient’s next issue.
1 May, 2009 at 11:32 pm
Sigh, am I wasting my time?
Freya:
Does VUWSA believe that students should be forced to be a member of its association? If so, how can VUWSA continue to accept student’s money each year, when, to quote Freya Eng, “some students may not feel the same way”?
4 May, 2009 at 10:03 am
Unfortunately gibbon you probably are.
I to would like to know the answer to your question.
5 May, 2009 at 2:06 pm
Freya, you are an idiot.
6 May, 2009 at 6:33 pm
I have recently read the article about VUWSA refusal to lay a wreath for ANZAC day commerations on stuff.co.nz and I am disgusted.
I am a member of the New Zealand Defence Force and would firstly like to state that the views stated here are my own and i know way represent the views of the NZDF, I have served my country on four seperate operational deployments in three seperate countries and both my great grandfathers and grandfaters served during WW1 and WW2 respectivly.
How can a body selected by the students to represent them be so stupid, you speak of requiring a mandate to lay a wreath, it is every new zealanders mandate to remember and respect those that have gone before and fought and died for the way of life that you now live.
ANZAC day in no way condones war, infact it is the opposite, it teachs and reminds us of the mistake made in the past that have cost so much.
I am physically sickened by your lack of respect, I hope that your student mandate also states that all students not of christen faith do not have good friday and easter monday off……….no it doesnt well there is my point.
Hopefully your student body will see the error of there ways and elected a new executive that doesnt make a mockery of its universtiy and its student assocition.
6 May, 2009 at 7:13 pm
Mandate. n.
2. Polit. [After French mandat (1789 in this sense). In quot. 1796 the phrase mandate instructions is probably after French mandats impératifs (1789).] The commission to rule or to pursue stated policies conferred by electors on their elected representatives; support for a policy or measure of an elected party regarded as deriving from the preferences expressed by the votes of the electorate.
Oxford English Dictionary
7 May, 2009 at 9:03 pm
I just read Freya’s rebuttal to her actions… I can get over the fact she wears her relative’s medals to services and yet doesn’t feel passionately enough about ANZAC to say stuff a mandate and YES laying a wreath is what students want….?
8 May, 2009 at 1:45 pm
Emma: Did you mean you *can’t* get over that fact? In which case you’re saying you can’t get over the fact that she’s able to put her strong personal feelings on the issue second to the responsibility to carry out her job as a democratically elected official? Huh. You people sure are hard to please.
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