Roger’s VSM bill
Sir Roger Douglas’ Voluntary Student Membership (VSM) of students’ associations bill has been selected as a members bill this morning.
The bill entitled Education (Freedom of Association) Amendment Bill has the stated aim of “uphold[ing] students’ right to freedom of association, by ensuring that no student is compelled to join a students’ association.”
Under the current system every student enrolled at Victoria University has to become a member of Victoria University of Wellington Students’ Association. The only way to opt out is to approach the president of the association and provide sound ideological reasons for not wanting to be a member.
New Zealand Union of Students’ Associations (NZUSA) co-president Jordan King said, “The bill is another idea from Sir Roger Douglas who hasn’t been a student for a long time.
“It looks like he wants to impose his 1980 beliefs on unsuspecting students. He probably doesn’t know what it is like to be on a tight budget. We don’t all get a 90 percent discount on our undertakings.
“We find the system is working fine. We don’t think he is the best person to make this decision for students,” King said.
Douglas frames it as an issue of choice. “We allow students to choose what university or polytechnic they attend, and what papers to take; it’s time we gave them the freedom to choose whether or not to join their local student association rather than forcing them to pay a union fee if they want to study.
“In addition, student associations often support particular political causes, which is inappropriate given that all students are forced to financially contribute. Voluntary student membership will increase the legitimacy of the involvement of such associations with politics,” he said.
The bill is expected to have its first reading in parliament within three to five weeks.
This is not the first time a VSM bill has been put before parliament. In 1997, then-MP Michael Laws managed to pass an amendment allowing VSM under the condition that: a) 10 percent of students signed a petition to force a referendum, and b) a majority of students in the referendum voted for VSM.
The full bill can be read here [pdf].
83 Comments
23 Aug, 2009 at 11:48 am
Yeah.
And it probably goes to the VUWSA food bank, one of their approved charities.
“I philosophy oppose being forced to give money to VUWSA.”
“Oh, OK then, we’ll give it to a charity. Run by VUWSA.”
24 Aug, 2009 at 1:16 pm
“VUWSA is not a Government. Do you people not realise that?”
Way to be patronising, ACT hack.
24 Aug, 2009 at 2:34 pm
I love the ACT idiots…
‘I don’t want people to claim to be speaking on my behalf when they are not’
But the other idiot, Peter…
Hey John Key, listen to the people (the majority) on the referendum, you have to change the law cos the majority say so.
So, in one instance, the majority shouldn’t speak for the people, but in the other the major should speak for the people.
24 Aug, 2009 at 3:00 pm
Two points:
First, once again, that relates back to the distinction between Government and any other organisation. Democracy is a mechanism to control Governments. The majority view there is important.
But the majority view in the marketplace is not important. A majority may prefer to wear green ties, but the minority are still allowed to wear blue ties. Some eat at McDonalds, others eat at fancy restaurants. The capacity for a majority to decide things is the hallmark of Government, and Students Associations are not a Government. That is why many think they should be voluntary.
Second, I probably agree on the smacking issue with your point. Majorities are not the end of the question in Government – rights are also an issue. That is why some countries have strong Constitutional protections of rights.
24 Aug, 2009 at 3:22 pm
‘ Democracy is a mechanism to control Governments’
Maybe, or maybe money and wealth are.
24 Aug, 2009 at 3:27 pm
‘But the majority view in the marketplace is not important’
Bull…. Businesses react to what the majority thinks. Look at what happned with Palm Oil and Cadbury. They reacted because the majority cared about sustainable business practices.
24 Aug, 2009 at 3:29 pm
Yup one last thing, maybe Peter is the idiot here, not you Stephen.
24 Aug, 2009 at 3:33 pm
I was meaning that that majority view in the market does not determine the scope of choice for the minority. Yes, Cadbury puts palm oil in their chocolate. Many do not care about that, and they are free to buy it.
Others, however, do. Because there are others who make those ethical choices, there is also market supply – Whittaker’s, for example, do not use palm oil.
You say that “Businesses react to what the majority thinks” and I agree. I would add that “Business also reacts to what minorities think.”
24 Aug, 2009 at 6:23 pm
But let’s be honest here Stephen, businesses don’t give a fuck about what people think, they only care about making their shareholders profit.
As your mate Milton F said, ‘why should business care about CSR, they know nothing about social responsibility.’ (or something on the lines of)
It’s the people that do and that’s why student associations exist, to care about social responsibilty. Something the ACT Party doesn’t and don’t pretend they do. To only lie to yourself if you do.
24 Aug, 2009 at 7:28 pm
GUYS YOU ARE FORGETTING THAT VUWSA IS NOT A BUSINESS
IF I WANT TO BUY CHOCOLATE I WILL IF NOT THEN I WON’T
HOWEVER I HAVE TO BE A MEMBER OF VUWSA WHETHER I USE THEIR SERVICES OR NOT
END OF STORY
24 Aug, 2009 at 8:30 pm
‘HOWEVER I HAVE TO BE A MEMBER OF VUWSA WHETHER I USE THEIR SERVICES OR NOT’
Please don’t yell, you wont sound any smarter.
And yes, you can opt out, it’s easy. So you’re wrong gib.
24 Aug, 2009 at 9:21 pm
Typing in caps doesn’t mean I’m yelling, in fact I was sitting calmly typing.
Tell me how to opt out then, if it is so easy.
thanks
24 Aug, 2009 at 9:47 pm
Contact VUWSA with a detailed description of your reasons for objecting to having to become a member.
Disagreeing philosophically with the organisation is not sufficient.
You will then be required to present this argument to a panel of VUWSA executive members and appointees who will judge your application.
If they deem it acceptable, you may then donate your fee to a charity of VUWSA’s choosing.
-Peter
24 Aug, 2009 at 9:55 pm
‘Typing in caps doesn’t mean I’m yelling’
Um… yes it does… you need to learn about this thing called the interweb and forums.
See Peter knows, it’s easy.
And I wonder if Peter or Stephen have ever tried to opted out, even though they claim they don’t want to belong.
24 Aug, 2009 at 10:16 pm
“Disagreeing philosophically with the organisation is not sufficient.”
So not wanting to be part of the organisation is not a good enough reason to not be part of it. Gotcha.
24 Aug, 2009 at 11:16 pm
One of the reasons I do not want to be a member is because it consumes my money. I do not get this back if I “opt out.”
Moreover, the fact that they advocate political causes I disagree is not sufficient to get out of the Association. I must disagree with the compulsion.
Furthermore, it is ironic that the two mechanisms for me to influence the Association work in opposite directions. If I want to stand for a position I must be part of an organisation I do not like. If I want to get out of it, I cannot stand and oppose the way they waste my money.
24 Aug, 2009 at 11:33 pm
Dog Part II (My apologies to U2).
Don’t believe in Roger Douglas
I don’t believe his bunk
But the truth is not the same
Without the lies he made up
Don’t believe in the market
Monopolies exist
Don’t believe in riches
But you should see where I live
I…I believe in love
Don’t believe in poverty
Until I look outside
The rich are getting richer
God save Rodney Hide
I…I believe in love
Don’t believe in Joe McCarthy
Social democracy’s for gimps
Don’t believe in free choice until it’s forced down my throat
I…I believe in love
24 Aug, 2009 at 11:53 pm
You don’t have to want to opt out to support VSM. I would join the union if it became optional, because I think a lot of the services it provides are important. But I trust students are generally sensible and will come to the same conclusion. If not, I’m not sure that justifies me forcing them to pay up anyway.
You don’t have to believe in monetarism-on-campus to believe that, I think. Although like Stephen, I would be very interested to hear about VUWSA’s stance on targeting the supply of money via central bank intervention.
25 Aug, 2009 at 10:38 am
‘I would join the union if it became optional, because I think a lot of the services’
Choice!
‘But I trust students are generally sensible and will come to the same conclusion. If not, I’m not sure that justifies me forcing them to pay up anyway.’
I think you’re wrong here, many students wouldn’t join, because they wouldn’t think about joining at the start of the year, not because they wouldn’t want too.
All these services would be lost under VSM.
25 Aug, 2009 at 12:07 pm
“All these services would be lost under VSM.”
No they wouldn’t. You think they would be lost.
25 Aug, 2009 at 2:40 pm
No R2D2 your circuits are fizzed again.
25 Aug, 2009 at 4:42 pm
“weird” Felicia Jollygoodfellow yankovic
25 Aug, 2009 at 7:32 pm
Winks at Hank. Lol!
25 Aug, 2009 at 11:30 pm
Yes I am a jerk off and a buffoon!
5 Sep, 2009 at 8:25 pm
Lets celebrate!!!!
first reading of VSM bill this Wednesday
ACT + NATZ = enough to pass it
see you later you scungy vacuous NZUSA dogs
bye bye to that that vile over-weight beast Sophia Blair, grown fat from the students pockets, echoing the monstrous Rebecca Matthews and Sarah Helm from days gone by. uuurrgh and that dreadful Randall sister guy, you and Sutton-beast got crushed in Epsom yayahahaha!
bye bye to decades of corruption, an end to an era of exploitation and trough feeding from the poor students to fatten try-hard chardonnay socialists careers with nothing to say
good riddance you fucking parasite dog people you never did shit for us.
hahahahaha
go get real jobs
6 Sep, 2009 at 12:50 am
We at ACT have forced through VSM. Nyah ha ha! Now the only scungy vacuous fucking parasite dog people are ACT Party MPs!
6 Sep, 2009 at 10:10 pm
I used to think it was good for everyone to be made to join the union, but after watching in shock, the god awful performance of the exec members, i am much less bothered by this issue.
The whole ANZAC kerfuffle was just disgraceful, it really was nothing to be proud of…
The <3 my penis, oh lord
Maybe if there was a mature sensible leadership over there this wouldn't be an issue, but sadly the students who do need the the financial support and the social help clubs provide, are going to be at the biggest disadvantage.
But if the truth be told, I would opt out if given the choice from the start. Just because the small petty house politics are always the same bollocks and the the students have to pay for it….yeah na yeah naaaaaa…..
8 Sep, 2009 at 1:09 am
@Nick Keesing – I remember you from Auckland! You were the dude who like, lived in the quad for a while, and always turned up to english hons stoned and angry right?
Sugar, I’d take a look in the mirror before you get all nasty about others.
Yo’ ugly.
16 Sep, 2009 at 8:18 am
Ha ha ha ha ha. I can’t wait to see VUWSA die a painful death when VSM comes to town. You bought it on yourselves after too many years of shitting over students.
The VSM movement only has to use VUWSA as an example of why VSM should come into place. Thanks to VUWSA, you have ruined it for others…. fuck you very much!
16 Sep, 2009 at 8:20 am
Oh and for those IDIOTS who claim this is ACT forcing it on students… you fucking dolts. Are you saying ACT is compulsorily getting rid of compulsion? Are you kidding?
30 Oct, 2009 at 1:30 am
It is true that nobody should be forced to join an organisation. However what were to happen if VSM does come into effect. Most likely the majority of students will choose not to join, thinking they saved between 100 – 200 dollars a year. This will result in alot of services being lost, such as gym (and cheap memberships) free (or low cost) doctors on campus, social activities like sport teams, tournaments and social events. Who is going to provide all these. Universities do not have to provide these services. Under most cotractual agreements (between student and university) the only things the university has to provide is that of a quality tertiary education. and if universities decide to continue those services no doubt fees will have to rise considerable. My point is will the general student population be better or worse of if VSM is passed and my vote is for the latter.
30 Oct, 2009 at 2:41 am
Phillip,
Most of the things you listed as services being under threat aren’t paid for by VUWSA anyway, they’re paid for by the university from the Student Services Levy that you pay ASWELL as the VUWSA levy that you pay.
30 Oct, 2009 at 10:38 pm
Posted by Milkshakes:
“Contact VUWSA with a detailed description of your reasons for objecting to having to become a member.
Disagreeing philosophically with the organisation is not sufficient.
You will then be required to present this argument to a panel of VUWSA executive members and appointees who will judge your application.
If they deem it acceptable, you may then donate your fee to a charity of VUWSA’s choosing.”
Can you PLEASE answer why we can’t just reform the opt-out process, instead of changing to an opt-in process? We all know students are apathetic, so why would they go to the bother of signing up to VUWSA, even if they didn’t disagree with it on philosophical grounds? With opt-out, if you want, you can leave. The fact is, the majority of students don’t care either way. In an effort to retain student services, an opt-out would be of greater benefit to those who actually rely on, or simply make use of these services.
You just want the destruction of VUWSA, you really don’t care about misrepresentation.